Michelle and Barack Obama have always appeared to be the perfect couple; even when weathering divorce rumors earlier in 2025, the pair remained cool, calm and collected, and joked about it on the former First Lady's podcast, IMO with Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson. The mother of two revealed on Wednesday's episode of the show that everything was not always perfect in the world of the Obamas, particularly when it comes to mealtimes together. Michelle welcomed psychoanalyst Dr. Orna Guralnik onto the podcast and began to discuss how her relationship with Barack had changed since their daughters moved out.
"We always have the kids to talk about, but not on a day-to-day basis," she began. "We've noticed how much of our time we've spent talking about them, right? So now that we're empty-nesters, it's like, 'Well, what are we going to talk about?'" Michelle and Barack share daughters Malia, 27, and Sasha, 24, who live together in Los Angeles.
"So we're together all day," the 61-year-old continued, adding that she doesn't ask him about his day until dinnertime. "There's a way to be next to another person, even in silence, that can be very alive," said Dr. Guralnik, who challenged Michelle to say what she's really thinking when dining with him.
"Because how many times does somebody ask, 'What are you thinking about?' And you're like, 'Well, let me make up a thing,'" the author quipped. "Because I don't actually want to tell you what I was thinking about, which is like, 'The way you're chewing makes me want to smack you upside the head.'" She added: "The girls and I are very irritated with the way Barack chews."
To learn more about Michelle and Barack's life as empty nesters, watch below...
Michelle and the former President have been married since 1992, and weathered divorce rumors at the beginning of the year when she was absent from a series of public events, including Donald Trump's inauguration and former President Jimmy Carter's funeral. She refuted these rumors on a July episode of IMO with Barack himself, and shared some sweet words about her husband in the process.
"There hasn't been one moment in our marriage where I thought about quitting my man," she declared. "And we've had some really hard times. So we had a lot of fun times, a lot of adventures, and I have become a better person because of the man I'm married to."
© InstagramMichelle has never shied away from being honest about their marriage, and spoke on Wednesday's episode about how their relationship was not perfect, despite being the ideal for so many couples. "I try to be honest with the world, with the people who follow me and Barack, to our girls, because, you know, people look at our marriage as the ideal," she explained.
© Instagram"In [the] Instagram world, you see two loving people doing a hard thing in the world, always on stage, giving each other a hug after a big speech and making it look easy…let me talk about what marriage is, because it's even when it looks good, even when it's great, it's hard. And so I think it's important because it's very easy to quit on a marriage."
© Getty ImagesShe added that the pair had engaged in couples therapy in the past, and that it was a normal, healthy part of marriage to receive outside support to make it through.
